Database Size and Requirement for WSUS 3.0

[Thinkpad21]

Hi,

going trough the Deployment Guide of WSUS, there seems to be no metrics for
Database usage. Does the Windows Internal Database have size limits like SQL
MSDE or ???...

How many computers/updates can be managed by the Database, and when is the
recommended cut-off to SQL 2005, instead of Windows Internal Database ?


Thanks !!!

--

[Lawrence Garvin (MVP)]

Post by Thinkpad21
Hi,
going trough the Deployment Guide of WSUS, there seems to be no metrics
for Database usage. Does the Windows Internal Database have size limits
like SQL MSDE or ???...

No.

Post by Thinkpad21
How many computers/updates can be managed by the Database, and when is the
recommended cut-off to SQL 2005, instead of Windows Internal Database ?

The empiracally observed limitation on WMSDE for WSUS 2.0 was about 2,500
clients, give or take.

Assuming a 50% improvement in performance, theoretically that ups the cap on
WID to about 4,000 clients.

But, most significantly, it's a function of how much hardware you put under
the WSUS server.
--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCTS, MCP
Independent WSUS Evangelist
MVP-Software Distribution (2005-2007)
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=30E00990-8F1D-4774-BD62-D095EB07B36E

Everything you need for WSUS is at
http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver/en/technologies/featured/wsus/default.mspx

And, almost everything else is at
http://wsusinfo.onsitechsolutions.com
....

[coolioo]

Hello,

We are currently thinking about deploying wsus 3.0 for our clients
Our question is what database/hardware to choose based on the number o
clients?
Consider the following scenario:
- for 250 clients, which database to choose (Sql Server 2005 Expres
SP2, WID or SQL 2005 SP2?
- for 1000 clients ...
- for 3000 clients ...
- more than 3000 clients
Can you help please me with the given scenarios ?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of SQL 2005 Express SP2 over WI
?

Note : On the hardware part we are also considering virtual machine
under VMWARE ESX.

Thanks,
Danie

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coolio
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[Lawrence Garvin (MVP)]

We are currently thinking about deploying wsus 3.0 for our clients.
Our question is what database/hardware to choose based on the number of
clients?
- for 250 clients, which database to choose (Sql Server 2005 Express
SP2, WID or SQL 2005 SP2?

For 250 clients I would recommend installing a single server using Windows
Internal Database.

- for 1000 clients ...

For 1,000 clients I would recommend installing a single server using Windows
Internal Database.

- for 3000 clients ...
- more than 3000 clients

For these scenarios it depends on a couple of factors:
[1] Do you already have a SQL Server 2005 SP1 system installed and
operational?
[2] Have you purchased 3,000 (or more) SQL Client Access Licenses?
[3] Do you have the funds available to purchase 3,000 (or more) SQL Client
Access Licenses?

If the answer to any one of those three questions is "No", then you should
deploy *two* WSUS servers using Windows Internal Database to support 3,000
to 5,000 clients.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of SQL 2005 Express SP2 over WID?

There are none.

Well, okay... there's one... SQL 2005 Express Edition supports network
administration of the database.

WID must be managed at the local machine.

Note : On the hardware part we are also considering virtual machines
under VMWARE ESX.

Virtual machines are a viable deployment scenario for a small client load.
Multiple load-balanced virtual machines are a viable deployment scenario for
a large client load with a physical back-end database server and a DFS
filestore.

I do not think that I would recommend running a thousand or more clients on
a single VM-based WSUS server -- but there are divergent opinions on this
matter -- so you should consider opposing viewpoints. :-)
--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCTS, MCP
Independent WSUS Evangelist
MVP-Software Distribution (2005-2007)
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=30E00990-8F1D-4774-BD62-D095EB07B36E

Everything you need for WSUS is at
http://www.microsoft.com/wsus

And, almost everything else is at
http://wsusinfo.onsitechsolutions.com
....

[coolioo]

Hello Lawrence,

Can we install WSUS 3.0 on a Windows Server 2003 SP2 and a SQL 2005
Express SP2 , or the only supported versions for now are the ones with
SP1 ?

P.S.
Thanks for your last answer, it was verry helpfull.

[Lawrence Garvin (MVP)]

Post by coolioo
Can we install WSUS 3.0 on a Windows Server 2003 SP2 and a SQL 2005
Express SP2 , or the only supported versions for now are the ones with
SP1 ?

The latest guidance on WSUS 3 is ambiguous. It explicitly identifies the
"Supported [Installation] Operating System as "Windows Server 2003 Service
Pack 1", but two lines later, under "Server Software Prerequisites" states
"Windows Server 2003 SP1 or later". One might assume "or later" means SP2,
but it could also mean "Longhorn" (which WSUS3 will install and run on).

See
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=E4A868D7-A820-46A0-B4DB-ED6AA4A336D9&displaylang=en#Requirements
for the full requirements.

The fact is that the product was released *before* either product's Service
Pack 2 was released, so it's a fairly reasonable assumption that there was
no pre-release testing done on a released edition of SP2 for those products.
Whether the WSUS testing people have done any actual testing on SP2
environments since then, or even documented issues, is unknown to me.

Having said that, here's what my observations have been about WSUS
installation over the past two years, on both versions -- based on posts
into this newsgroup:
[a] WSUS2 was "supported" on SQL Server 2000 SP3a. It was sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto SQL Server 2000 SP4 systems.
[b] WSUS2 SP1 was "supported" on SQL Server 2005 RTM. It was sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto SQL Server 2005 SP1 systems.
[c] WSUS2 SP1 was "supported" on Windows Server 2003. It was sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto Windows Server 2003 R2 or Windows Server
2003 SP2 systems.
[d] WSUS3 is "supported" on SQL Server 2005 SP1. It is sometimes flaky
when installed directly onto SQL Server 2005 SP2 systems.
[d] WSUS3 is "supported" on Windows Server 2003 SP1. It is sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto Windows Server 2003 SP2 systems.

I don't know what the issues are with installing the product onto uplevel
platforms, but given the inconsistencies, my general recommendation is to
*install* onto the supported service pack level, and then apply the service
pack upgrades after installing WSUS3.

e.g. Use Windows Server 2003 SP1 and SQL Server 2005 SP1, install WSUS3,
then apply Windows Server 2003 SP2 and SQL Server 2005 SP2.
--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCTS, MCP
Independent WSUS Evangelist
MVP-Software Distribution (2005-2007)
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=30E00990-8F1D-4774-BD62-D095EB07B36E

Everything you need for WSUS is at
http://www.microsoft.com/wsus

And, almost everything else is at
http://wsusinfo.onsitechsolutions.com
....

[Matthew Wetmore (MSFT)]

Here's the quick rundown.

WSUS is tested against OSes that are released before it. That's supported
for deployment. That covers Server 2003 SP1, and the console on Vista.
WSUS continues to be tested against service packs under development for OSes
that have been released, and service packs have a responsibility to be
backwards compatibility. That'd cover future versions of SPs for Server
2003 SP1.

The previous should also apply to SQL versions. You should be fine with
Windows Server 2003 SP2, and SQL 2005 SP2.

Windows Server 2008 is still under development, so there is no way that WSUS
3.0 RTM can be certified for deployment on a "in development" OS. For the
most part, the OS itself isn't certified for deployments except in certain
circumstances that you'd have to carefully read. WSUS continues to be
tested against these OSes, and WSUS 3.0 SP1 is slated to address any issues
that are found.
--
Matthew Wetmore
Developer - WSUS, MBSA, Group Policy. Check out the "Developer" entries at
the WSUS blog:
http://blogs.technet.com/wsus/archive/tags/Developer/default.aspx

This posting is provided "As Is" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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Post by Lawrence Garvin (MVP)

Post by coolioo
Can we install WSUS 3.0 on a Windows Server 2003 SP2 and a SQL 2005
Express SP2 , or the only supported versions for now are the ones with
SP1 ?

The latest guidance on WSUS 3 is ambiguous. It explicitly identifies the
"Supported [Installation] Operating System as "Windows Server 2003 Service
Pack 1", but two lines later, under "Server Software Prerequisites" states
"Windows Server 2003 SP1 or later". One might assume "or later" means SP2,
but it could also mean "Longhorn" (which WSUS3 will install and run on).
See
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=E4A868D7-A820-46A0-B4DB-ED6AA4A336D9&displaylang=en#Requirements
for the full requirements.
The fact is that the product was released *before* either product's
Service Pack 2 was released, so it's a fairly reasonable assumption that
there was no pre-release testing done on a released edition of SP2 for
those products. Whether the WSUS testing people have done any actual
testing on SP2 environments since then, or even documented issues, is
unknown to me.
Having said that, here's what my observations have been about WSUS
installation over the past two years, on both versions -- based on posts
[a] WSUS2 was "supported" on SQL Server 2000 SP3a. It was sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto SQL Server 2000 SP4 systems.
[b] WSUS2 SP1 was "supported" on SQL Server 2005 RTM. It was sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto SQL Server 2005 SP1 systems.
[c] WSUS2 SP1 was "supported" on Windows Server 2003. It was sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto Windows Server 2003 R2 or Windows
Server 2003 SP2 systems.
[d] WSUS3 is "supported" on SQL Server 2005 SP1. It is sometimes flaky
when installed directly onto SQL Server 2005 SP2 systems.
[d] WSUS3 is "supported" on Windows Server 2003 SP1. It is sometimes
flaky when installed directly onto Windows Server 2003 SP2 systems.
I don't know what the issues are with installing the product onto uplevel
platforms, but given the inconsistencies, my general recommendation is to
*install* onto the supported service pack level, and then apply the
service pack upgrades after installing WSUS3.
e.g. Use Windows Server 2003 SP1 and SQL Server 2005 SP1, install WSUS3,
then apply Windows Server 2003 SP2 and SQL Server 2005 SP2.
--
Lawrence Garvin, M.S., MCTS, MCP
Independent WSUS Evangelist
MVP-Software Distribution (2005-2007)
https://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile=30E00990-8F1D-4774-BD62-D095EB07B36E
Everything you need for WSUS is at
http://www.microsoft.com/wsus
And, almost everything else is at
http://wsusinfo.onsitechsolutions.com
....

[tic1745]

Hi,
I am thinking to use vmware or hyperV to install wsus 3 sp2, and usin
Google to search and no result. Probably, some body in this thread wil
tell me whether I can install wsus 3 sp2 on the virtual machine (eithe
vm or hyperV).
My current condition, I have 1 upstream server and 3 down strea
servers, they all in individual box. Since those boxes are old and m
boss asked me whether it is possible to install wsus on the virtua
machine.

I have about 4000 pcs and distribute evenly on those 3 downstrea
servers.

I will appreciate that if someone can tell me whether it is possible t
install wsus on the virtual and with existing condition.

thank

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tic174
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